A FLY ON THE WALL: What Men Really Say About Women

 

Copyright TAHC, LLC - All Rights Reserved.

Thanks to Kelly G. for this transcript!

This episode was mixed by Greg from Lucid Drive Studios.

Technical services provided by www.betasptodvd.com

 

EPISODE THIRTEEN

November 24, 2007

 

–INTRO TO SHOW–

 

 

Welcome to another episode of A FLY ON THE WALL…

Guy #1: I mean, I like boobs, but it’s a bonus, you know what I mean? It’s like, if they got boobs, it’s a bonus.

Guy #2: First of all, I check the face. And then I check the back.

Guy #3: I guess I’m a breast man.

Guy #4: Um, intelligence, definitely. I find that the sex is much more interesting if the person is intelligent.

Guy #5: Not preppy girls. I don’t like girls that are stuck up.

Guy #6: Diamonds, like you know, fancy cars, people who likes to show people that they got money. I’m against this stuff.

Guy #7: I don’t want, you know, someone to bust my chops everyday. And I hope, I hope I don’t have the desire to do that to her either.

Guy #8: If she’s too stupid, I can’t handle it. I just cut it right away.

Guy #9: It’s nice to have somebody who’s watching your back and making sure you’re not making an ass out of yourself.

Guy #10: You know, definitely women from other countries, other cultures, coming from some sort of heritage besides Wal-Mart.

Guy #11: Somebody funny.

Guy #12: I love it when they’re weird, that’s hot!

 

–SEGMENT 1–

 

MIKE: Hi welcome to A FLY IN THE WALL. I’m Mike.

KIRK: And I’m Kirk. And we’re really glad you came back because we have a really special guest today.

MIKE: Yes we do.

KIRK: Yeah, it’s Evan Mark Katz, and Evan Mark Katz, you’ve probably seen him on Yahoo or other places, but he’s a dating coach which is perfect for our show. We’re going to learn a lot today so we’d like to welcome you, come on in.

MIKE: Hey, how’s it going Evan?

EVAN: Great, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

KIRK: Can you tell us a little bit about what you do?

EVAN: My website is evanmarkkatz.com and people find me because I’ll be on TV or I’ve written a couple books and they, something I say resonates with them. And they call me on the phone and we just sort of figure out what’s not working in their life. Some people are recently out of a divorce, some people have never had a relationship, some people can’t get into a relationship, some people have trouble approaching women. My job is to listen to what’s not working for them and try to come up with a solution.

MIKE: What kind of guy, how did you become a dating coach?

EVAN: I was just a writer, a screenwriter. I needed a day job. I got a job answering phones for an online dating company in Beverly Hills called JDate. After 9 months of doing customer service at JDate and all the dating experience I had, I was like, “Oh my God, I have to write a book about this.” And so I wrote a book called I Can’t Believe I Bought This Book: A Common Sense Guide to Successful Internet Dating.

MIKE: Fantastic title.

EVAN: And it came out in 2004 and launched a website called ecyrano.com that helped people write online dating profiles, and the next thing I knew, I was the online dating guy. And then I became a dating coach, and you talk to enough men and enough women and you just absorb that information and try to make essence and essentially, guys, I see myself as a translator. I explain women to men and men to women.

KIRK: Now here’s the thing that’s puzzling to me is that okay you give them these tools and you set them up and your name E-Cyrano is interesting because obviously you, like Cyrano writes the love letters for someone else. Are they disappointed when they meet the real person and the real person doesn’t have the poetic flair to the language and everything?

EVAN: Sure. It’s a great question, and it’s one that I’ve been asked a bunch. What I do is really, I don’t create, I capture. So the same way if you go to a photographer, he doesn’t put a mask on you to make you look better. But he’ll do your hair, do your makeup, and light you well. But it’s authentically them and that’s the nice part about it.

KIRK: Right, so it feels genuine to the other person.

EVAN: I write something in their voice so that when they show up on the date, that’s them.

KIRK: That’s great.

EVAN: There’s never any doubt about that’s who they are. They just wouldn’t have been able to do it for themselves because left to their own devices, we say things like “I’m nice and smart and kind and warm and funny.” And that doesn’t say anything about anybody.

KIRK: Now when you say you’re a dating coach, coach implies to me that there’s more than one experience with you. Is this the case or will people come to you for one time?

EVAN: It’s a relationship. I’ll work with people for one month, two months, three months at a time. I’ll spend a long weekend with them. We’ll do live dating coaching. Really, my job is not to tell people what they need but rather to find out what they need.

KIRK: Right.

EVAN: So I’ll get a guy who’s been on three dates with a girl and just doesn’t know why he can’t build any romance and attraction, or I’ll get some woman who just slept with some guy who doesn’t call and doesn’t know why she keeps putting herself in the same position. Whatever it is, I just listen and it’s not one size fits all answers.

KIRK: Would you say there’s a predominant thing? I’m curious, what’s the biggest thing that men have in coming to you?

EVAN: I think most guys struggle with access to women. They think it’s all about, “I can’t meet the right person.” We sort of dissect other people, and I think that’s probably the biggest thing that any dating coach or maybe even therapist has to deal with is people who don’t want to take responsibility for what’s going on in their life. They just want to say it’s everybody else’s fault. And so we need to sort of realign them and help them take responsibility for what they can control and let go of what they can’t.

KIRK: So work on yourself first, and when you’re attractive, you’re attractive to other people.

EVAN: That’s part of it, but it’s understanding that, “Hey, if you’re the 45 year old divorced guy and you want to date the 26 year old hot girl, this might be a difficult endeavor for you. Get in line.”

MIKE: Right, now are you getting a lot of people like that though? Are you getting guys that are older coming to you?

EVAN: Yeah. I get anybody who is struggling in their love life is going to pick up the phone and call me. And they are looking for answers, and some people are looking for quick fix answers, and some people understand that this is a process and it’s not magic.

MIKE: See, I’m kind of impressed that people, especially guys, would reach out to a dating coach.

KIRK: I am too. I would never do that.

MIKE: It seems like a very hard…I mean most of my friends and the guys that I know have enough trouble admitting that they go on match.com or JDate or something like that. There’s some sort of embarrassment that goes along with it. Personally, I’ve never, I used MySpace a little bit when it first came out to date, but not intentionally.

EVAN: Men need more help than women. Women ask for more help than men. And we know this. Who’s the one that’s going to pull over and stop to ask for directions? Guys are going to do it wrong but they’re going to do it their way.

KIRK: Here’s a question that I like guests that have some experience with this. To me, it seems like there is mostly single women out there that are always complaining about finding a man, and to me, it’s so puzzling because guys, seems like their standards are pretty low and they’ll pretty much go with anything that walks in a skirt.

MIKE: You think?

KIRK: It seems so, so I guess I’m just puzzled, if all these girls out there, why is it so hard to find the right guy or find a guy? Why are there so many women out there that have so much difficulty finding a guy?

MIKE: I think it’s just so hard to meet people. People are really…even if a girl warms up to you and they’re attractive, that’ll send some guys running. I’ve seen it.

KIRK: Are you serious?

MIKE: Absolutely, a lot of guys are really shy.

KIRK: Oh my God, that’s the most attractive thing in the world to me is if somebody cares about me and is interested in me, that’s like the biggest attraction, I mean.

MIKE: I know, but I’m saying, certain people back away from it. It’s intimidating. If you’re not good at dating at all, if you’re not good at approaching people, like I know guys that get real nervous and don’t know what to do. They clam up.

KIRK: Yeah, but Evan, what’s your take on why there are so many women who seem to be complaining more about being single than men?

EVAN: I think we’re talking about, you know, generations of society coding and how it’s supposed to look, and so women are taught that you need the relationship and you got the biological clock and things are supposed to happen on a certain timeframe. And so there’s a sense of urgency. It’s a different sense of urgency. Guys, especially guys in LA, our careers take a longer time to take root, especially it’s a lot easier to be single into your late 30s and not be as panicky about it.

MIKE: Hear hear.

EVAN: And so there’s a different thing, and then what happens when the guy’s career takes off when he’s 38 years old? Is he looking to date a 38 year old woman? Often not. So where does that leave the 38 year old woman? It gets her written to by 55 year old guys on match.com and getting really upset. Why are these older guys interested in me? Why can’t I get a 38 year old guy who is just like me? This is the guy I would turn down in high school. Now I beg him for a date.

KIRK: Yeah, right.

EVAN: So the problem is we just aren’t connecting. As we evolve, we want different things, and you’re going to want different things as a 25 year old guy and as a 35 year old guy and as a 40 year old guy.

KIRK: That’s true.    

EVAN: And women are often just caught in the crossfire of it.

MIKE: Is that the kind of, are you getting a lot of people that are like that that are different age groups looking for different things? Is that like the biggest problem you’re having?

EVAN: Absolutely. We all want what we can’t have.

MIKE: Right.

KIRK: Oh that brings up a great thing. We got a great question for you guys to hear about that are recorded on the street, so let’s go to our little segment called Ask a Guy, okay?

EVAN: Sweet. I’m all for it.

KIRK: Okay, here we go. Listen in.

 

–ASK A GUY—

 

Woman: Hi, my name is Carmen and my question is, “Why is it that men are so into the game of chasing and then once they get what they want, they back off?

KIRK: Alright, so that’s Carmen, Evan. What do you think about the chase?

EVAN: I think the chase is about the most fun thing in the world. And I think people often think one step and not two. You can make a million parallels about that but the same way that some dude puts up a picture of himself ten years ago on the Internet hoping to get a date. It’s going to put him one step, he’s going to get a date. Second step, he’s going to you know, it’s going to blow up in his face. So sometimes, guys chase because the chase is fun and they don’t really think about the consequences of the chase. Oh my God, I’ve got her. I don’t really want her, but I got her. I haven’t taken the time to find out if she’s interesting or if she’s sane or if she’s,  you know, geographically desirable. I just know that she was attractive, I chased her, and I know my girlfriend puts it like it’s the dog that chases the car. What happens when you catch the car?

KIRK: Yeah. Right. That’s true.

MIKE: I gotta be honest with you because I’m a big fan of the chase.

KIRK: That’s why you’re single.

MIKE: Well that and other reasons. But I definitely, you know, it’s funny because I am dating somebody right now, and a small issue that I’ve had with her is maybe, you know, maybe Evan can be the dating therapist now for me. Evan, the problem I’ve had with her is I didn’t have to chase her, she chased me. And that is an issue for me, and that is the first time that I can remember that, you know, it’s really come to me where I haven’t had to do the actual work, which I realize I love doing the work, I love doing the chasing.

KIRK: Yeah but what are you afraid of with her? What are you afraid of?

MIKE: I’m all I don’t know what to do because I didn’t have to chase it, so it’s been like, everything’s been great but there’s something that’s bizarre in nothing having to…

EVAN: You don’t feel like you’ve earned it, so you haven’t climbed the tree to pluck the apple that’s the highest. The apple was just right there and you picked it up, and you were like, “Huh, that’s a pretty good apple.” Right, and so you don’t feel like you’ve accomplished much. You haven’t won anything even though you might have gotten exactly what you wanted.

MIKE: Well that’s it. I’m very happy with what I have, but you’re exactly right, I haven’t had to go out and earn it.

EVAN: You’re devaluing her because you didn’t earn her. She doesn’t deserve to be devalued. She’s the same product that you could have earned. You just didn’t have to.

MIKE: Right, and I realize that. It’s just, it took me awhile to realize what was missing or what was off on this. And cuz you know, the girls that I’ve chased up until recently that I still thought about, it’s like, “Damn, how’d that one get away? Or what ended up happening there?” But it also pales in comparison to the relationship that I’m in, so maybe I’m just maturing and trying to figure out how it’s all working when I don’t have to chase. Now you have a girlfriend. Does it ever have any effect on your relationship because like, you’ve broken things down so much that you go, “Well, you’re wrong here because I know women should be acting like this.”

EVAN: Yeah, I don’t think it’s a matter of right and wrong. I’d like to think that I’m a pretty good communicator and that I kind of get it and that I’m self aware but I could also probably be over-analytical and dogmatic. So we’re all sort of the sum total of our experiences and the experiences of others. So if I’m living my own dating life and I had a very rich single dating life going out with hundreds of people over the years, and now I’m in a really healthy relationship for the first time, and I spend my days every single day talking men and women and what’s going on in their lives, all of it sort of gets in and you kind of, you spend all your time doing one thing, you’re just going to get better at it. And so I’d like to think I’m a better coach than I was a year ago and a year before that, and I hope I’m going to be better next year.

KIRK: The people from last year are going to ask for their money back.

EVAN: Um, thankfully that hasn’t happened.

MIKE: Do you have a track record of nobody asking for their money back?

EVAN: No, I’ve had clients ask for their money back because it’s human. Hey listen, I could be the world’s greatest dating coach. I could be a genius, but if you’re a dick on the date, not my fault.

MIKE: Sure, right.

EVAN: With that said, you know, I kind of posit myself like a personal trainer at a gym. I can only work with what I’m given.

KIRK: That’s a good point.

EVAN: And if I have trained Olympic athletes and gotten them the gold, and you only decide to show up once a month, there’s very little that I’m going to do for you. And so sometimes that happens when they think that they really want my help but don’t necessarily want to take any of my advice, and then they get angry at me for the advice that I give. And I sort of, you know, I sort of understand that. You know, I can’t take it personally if a client doesn’t achieve all of their goals, but I do my best to make sure that they do. I’m their biggest fan.

KIRK: Yeah, you want them to score.

EVAN: Right. Their success is my success. If I do a good job, they’re going to tell their friends.

MIKE: And it’s gotta feel great too. You’re pairing somebody up.

EVAN: I’ve got clients who are in love, I’ve got clients who are engaged, married, have kids. And I’m a small piece of that. I’m not, from a guy who’s just writing screenplays that nobody ever read, it’s a great step up.

KIRK: That’s awesome. Yeah, it must feel really good when somebody actually takes it all the way and has the kid and they’re still married and you feel like you started something. You started a family, you know?

EVAN: Just a push in the right direction and making the most of what someone has, you know? And so the 50 year old divorced woman who’s 30 pounds overweight in rural Texas is going to have different experience from the guy who’s making $200 million who’s in Silicon Valley.

KIRK: Right.

MIKE: Is there one thing though? Like you said Texas and Silicon Valley. Is there one common thread between men and women that you’ve found?

EVAN: We all overestimate ourselves.

MIKE: Really?

EVAN: Yeah. We all think we’re so great, and we can’t understand why things aren’t working.

MIKE: Yeah, I can’t understand that.

EVAN: And I think that’s the hardest part which is that we think that we deserve the world. We’re experts in others’ behavior, so we can dissect our date, our partner. So we know the things that we’re doing for them, but we don’t always understand what they’re putting up with when they’re dating us.

KIRK: So you point that out. You like basically hold a mirror up to the people basically.

EVAN: Again, I don’t really pass any judgment on anybody as much as just letting somebody know that, you know, I’ve got my 56 year old guy in I’m not even going to say where in case he’s listening. But I’ve got this 56 year old guy and he wants to date a woman who’s 20 years younger than him, and she can’t have kids, she can’t want kids, she can’t smoke, she’s gotta be a 9 or a 10. And I said, ‘Hey listen, it’s great that you have these rules and you have these standards, but you actually need someone who’s willing to break her rules because you know what, most 38 year old women don’t want to date a 56 year old man. So you need someone who’s going to break her rules for you. What rules are you going to break?”

KIRK: That’s a great point.

EVAN: If you want to be given a chance, how are you going to give someone else a chance that you might say, “Hmm, that’s not at the top of my list.” And the more rules that we layer onto our dating experiences, well, the harder it is for anybody to find each other. And I’m the poster boy for hypocrisy because I spent 8 years dating online and I met my girlfriend at a party, and we would have never met each other through the conventional search because we weren’t exactly what we were looking for demographically speaking.

KIRK: That’s so true. There’s this girl at my work, and I don’t know, she’s probably in her 40s and just doing the whole dating thing like crazy. And so one time we were all sitting around the water cooler, “Hey what are you looking for in a man?” “Well he has to be tall. Like really tall. He definitely has to have you know like an outdoor job. I love outdoor job guys. And he has to have all these rules.” Just like you’re saying. And I’m like, “Well look, you know, you might think about because my wife….I was always into kind of like the mousey brunette types, and then my wife is like this blonde, you know, beautiful, totally different type than I would have ever gone for.

MIKE: Is Kirk with the wrong woman?

KIRK: No, but it’s like, because I was always looking for the brunette mousey girl and it turned out I ended up with the exact opposite that I wasn’t looking for. And this is what I told this girl at work, and her list was really long with all these rules.

MIKE: I think a lot of girls when they’re getting older, and when I say getting older…

EVAN: Their options go down but their lists get longer.

MIKE: I agree, and let me guess. There’s always three things that I always, when I’m dating, I always find out. They always want a guy that’s tall. They always want a guy that has all his hair. And they always want a guy that wants to travel. Love to travel. “I love to travel. Let’s travel. I want to travel. I want to travel.”

KIRK: Yeah.

MIKE: Am I right? Are you getting a lot of that?

EVAN: And I want you to pay.

MIKE: Yeah, exactly.

EVAN: No, I mean, everybody has their list, and what’s funny, guys, is that I remember why I’m here and it’s because an article I wrote for Yahoo about this very thing. It was called, “Setting the Bar Too High.”

KIRK: Oh that’s right. That’s exactly what it was. That’s what I saw.

EVAN: And a year ago, I met two Jewish women at a Halloween party who wanted him to be cute and successful and Jewish and also be an animal activist and to be the kind of guy who will pick a dog by the side of the road and drive him to the pound when he’s driving on the 101. And hey, you know, that’s cool, but tall, successful, Jewish animal activist. How many of them are around, and how many of them are going to be interested in you? That’s the other thing. We could have our list, but they also have to be interested in you. So I think we just sort of, we want what we want and we don’t always realize that it might be restricting us and that it might be unrealistic. And sometimes, unless we do open up to things that might not be on our list, we’re going to spend a long time alone, which is okay. I don’t judge being single. It’s just, hey, you could stand on your principle, but you could stand on your principle until you’re dead.

KIRK: I mean, but do they really want all those things on the list or are they just, their defense to keep people away at arms length? Is that what it is or do they really want that? Do they have to have an animal activist?

MIKE: I think a lot of cases, they want it.

EVAN: I think they want it, and they think they deserve it, and they refuse to settle because you know, for all we talk about our lack of self esteem, we seem to have a lot of ego.

KIRK: Wow.

EVAN: We think we deserve a pretty special person.

KIRK: Yeah.

EVAN: And I’m not saying that you don’t. I’m saying that it could come in a different package than you would expect.

MIKE: That’s a great way of summing it up actually.

KIRK: Yeah, and it’s also a great time to take a break. We’re going to take a break real quick.

MIKE: Great times.

KIRK: That was so interesting. We’ll be right back with Evan Mark Katz and my friend Mike.

MIKE: Bye.

 

–COMMERCIAL–    

 

Girl: Los Angeles. It’s movies, it’s music, it’s home to anyone who dares to take on their dream. There’s no other place like it on other, and LA is my home too. My husband and I live in Studio City, a part of Los Angeles where in every café there’s an almost electric buzz as deals are being struck, projects are launching, and partnerships are being born. Want to feel the thrill of this town for yourself? We’ve turned our private little guest house into a nightly vacation rental, that even a waiter, I mean, actor, can afford. We call it the California Bungalow. Stay in our guest house. It’s on the web at thecaliforniabungalow.com. Who knows, you may stay here and go home with a deal signed on a napkin from Aroma Café. Oh, excuse me, this might be my dream calling.

 

–ASK A GUY—

 

Girl: Hey. This is Shelley. Why do guys brag after they hook up with you? Like, it’s kind of like none of anyone else’s business and then you hear about it from a bunch of people who had nothing to do with it about you and your boyfriend or like a guy that you’re intimate with.

MIKE: Oh boy, I think I know Shelley.

KIRK: Alright. We’re back.

MIKE: And we are back.

KIRK: We’re back here with Evan Mark Katz who is an author and a love, sorry, a dating coach.

EVAN: Love coach is nice, I’m fine with that.

MIKE: With the work that he’s done, he would definitely be considered a love coach.

KIRK: Yeah, but guys wouldn’t take to that moniker so well, I think, right?

EVAN: Yeah, if we called me a hook-up coach, that would be more attractive to guys.

KIRK: There we go. So what do you think about this, the question from Shelley?

EVAN: Why do guys brag about hooking up?

KIRK: Yeah, yeah.

EVAN: Because nothing exists until you tell someone else about it, you know? If a tree falls in the forest…

KIRK: That’s true.

MIKE: It really is more exciting.

EVAN: And so it’s like, you know, you need the validation. What’s the point of having anything happen to you if you can’t share it? Why do people blog? I mean, we have this thing that needs to be let out and especially if it’s a hookup and he doesn’t consider it sacred in any way, he’s not thinking of her and her sensitivities even though perhaps he should. He’s just doing what comes naturally to him, which is tell his friends.

KIRK: Right.

MIKE: They always ask the single guy. Like once you’re married, how many people are asking you if you still hook up with your wife?

KIRK: Exactly. No one. Yeah.

MIKE: I mean. I still get asked all the time, and it’s still kind of fun. And sometimes I’ll make stuff up just because it’s fun. You know, it’s just like…

KIRK: But I think you’re right that it’s not just about women, it’s about everything. Because when I have an awesome surf session, I have to call everyone I know and tell them about it because it’s just such a rush and you’re out there alone and you can’t really describe it unless someone’s a surfer and you can share it with them and then you can feel it again.

MIKE: I notice you never call me.

EVAN: Unless you hide a digital camera in the surf board.

KIRK: Exactly, but that still wouldn’t capture it, you know? Okay, so I got something really fun that I wanted to talk about. I was reading this article and I want to know if you’ve heard of this. It’s a new, supposed to be this new kind of dating thing. You know what speed dating right, everyone knows what speed dating is. Well, there’s these new places I read about where it’s a room full of people and you go there and everyone’s only mission is to hook up. They’ve been advertised, like no buying dinners, no any of this, you just go there, you go in the room and every single person there is there just because they want to hook up and that’s it. And so have you ever heard of that?

MIKE: What’s it called?

KIRK: I don’t remember. There’s three or four different services.

MIKE: I’ve never heard of it, but I really personally like the idea of it. If you see something, you like, why not run with it. You can.

KIRK: Make it happen.

MIKE: Make it happen.

KIRK: My take on this which is really funny is, it seems like it would put hookers out of business right? Because you go there and you find what you want, and so anybody can do that, right?

MIKE: I don’t think hookers are ever going to go out of business as long as…

EVAN: Hookers won’t go out of business, and listen, there’s just different media that achieve the same goals. So you could go to adultfriendfinder.com or onlinebootycall.com or sexsearch.com or you could go to Craigslist. You could do this. This is just sort of more live instant gratification without actually having to write an email.

KIRK: Right.

EVAN: So it’s just cutting to the chase, and it makes perfect business sense. There’s undoubtedly going to be a market for it.

KIRK: So when you go to those things online, is there some kind of fee involved, like are you paying the girl to go out with you or…?

EVAN: On what?

KIRK: On those online services.

EVAN: No, no, not at all.

KIRK: It’s totally mutual?

EVAN: It’s a dating site without the date.

KIRK: Cause I’ve been to a couple of those sites and to me it looks like there is a little bit of a call girl thing going on.

EVAN: It’s not prostitution at all. It’s just mutual sexual using in the healthiest sense.

KIRK: Yeah, hmm, okay.

MIKE: The other thing is, I’m wondering, if you show up at a speed hookup session, say 50 people show up and they’re planning on having it from 8-10. What if everybody hooks up with somebody and it’s over in 10 minutes?

KIRK: Well yeah, it’s possible.

MIKE: And all of sudden, the excitement’s gone.

KIRK: I guess I just think that 85 guys would show up and like 15 women.

EVANT: I’m quite sure it’s regulated. I mean, I’m sure there’s no way. I know with speed dating events, the struggle is to keep the numbers balanced because you can’t have an event if there’s 20 women and 5 guys, which is what happens in speed dating events.

KIRK: But a lot of those are show women right?

EVAN: No, generally actually, the women are legit. The guys are usually going to be the ringers.

KIRK: Is that right?

MIKE: Interesting. Now Kirk, have you ever been to a speed dating session? I have not.

KIRK: No.

MIKE: Have you?

EVAN: I will say candidly, it’s probably the only thing I’ve ever done for research.

MIKE: I like that, “research.”

EVAN: No, I’m not one of those guys who does research. I coach, I live, I date, you know. I talk a lot but I’ve never like done research. And I felt I should know what this is about so I could have an informed opinion about it, so I went to two speed dating events, and they’re fun. They’re a hoot. I mean, you’re guaranteed at meeting 10 people in an hour. It’s like five minutes, ding. So it’s first impressions and instant chemistry and it doesn’t necessarily portend a relationship. But there are some people who could spend 30 bucks a month online and not have anybody write back to them. Ten people in a night, you have the opportunity. For the people who say, I’m better in real life than I am online, well this is your chance to shine.

KIRK: Well okay, what would you say or do to figure out in a short amount of time if this person is good material or not?

EVAN: You don’t.

KIRK: You just be yourself?

EVAN: Well, you’re not there to find out if they’re good material because there’s nothing you could find out in five minutes.

KIRK: Well what about the chemistry? Is there some kind of chemistry that you can be aware of or you’ll know, “Oh this is a great match for me”?

EVAN: I think that we’re kidding ourselves if we think we can figure out something in five minutes beyond, “Do I want to sleep with this person?”

KIRK: So no love at first sight?

EVAN: It’s not even in the cards.

MIKE: I agree.

EVAN: You could call it love. You could call it lust. It just lets you know, “Do I want to get this person’s phone number and inquire within?”

KIRK: Right.

EVAN: And that’s what that’s about. It’s first impression, chemistry, you’re lining up people, ringing up people, and saying go. So you could be there looking for a serious relationship. I just don’t think you could know anything if you’re going to have a serious relationship in five minutes.

MIKE: Right.

EVAN: Now I’m sure there’s someone that’s gone on a speed dating event and had love at first sight who could tell that story, but for the most part, it’s, you know, a conversation at the bar. You don’t know who you’re meeting, you’re just meeting someone based on how they look.

KIRK: That’s true. I guess what’s good about speed dating is it takes away the trepidation of walking up to someone at a bar because it’s organized. So it makes it a little bit more accessible. You could say, you know, you’re forced to talk to the person instead of having to gather up the courage to go to them.

EVAN: That’s correct.

MIKE: I would think it would be tougher to show up at a speed dating session because I personally would be more nervous about something like that. I don’t know, there’s something about showing up in a room where I’m going to be ten girls in a matter of minutes instead of showing up maybe at a bar or at a party and just naturally meeting somebody.

KIRK: Right.

EVAN: That’s because there’s competition, right? At a bar, you’re not talking to a woman and you see ten guys lined up behind you.

MIKE: Right, right.

EVAN: In a speed dating event, you are actively competing against other people.

MIKE: So would you suggest to any of the people that you’re coaching to go to a speed dating event or not?

EVAN: I never have but not because…I think it’s fun, but I just think bang for your buck. Some people are concerned about that kind of thing for the same $35 that you would be spending on a speed dating event, you can spend on a month at an online dating site. It just seems to create more opportunity, and you can organically get to know someone. The one thing that online dating doesn’t present is the instant physicality, right? You could get to know someone pretty well, and you show up, and there’s no chemistry on the date. Or at a speed dating event, you could start out with chemistry but actually have no idea who you’re going out with. So it’s a tradeoff.

KIRK: What do you think is the best place to hook up with people other than a bar? I mean, you can go to a bar, you can go to a club, but what’s a place where you can actually meet someone and have the opportunity to talk and find someone that’s like-minded other than your specific, like if you’re an equestrian, your specific thing at an equestrian event?

EVAN: You know, I wouldn’t really worry so much about where you’re meeting people. I’d worry about who you are when you’re meeting people. It’s the equivalent of saying, “What gym do I lose the most weight at?”

KIRK: That’s a good point.

MIKE: That’s a great point.

EVAN: Yeah, I mean, there are some gyms that are better than others, and there are some dating sites that are better than others, and there are certainly better venues than others, but if you are a happy personable guy, you’re going to meet someone at the bank, you’re going to meet someone in the line at Starbucks, you’re going to meet someone literally when your car is stalling and you’re hitchhiking. I mean, you could meet people anywhere. Just be aware and realize that there are opportunities everywhere. If you’re a guy listening, women want to be met if they’re single.

KIRK: Wow, okay. Well good, we’re going to run out of time here, but I wanted to see if there was anything else that you wanted to bring up before…either of you because we’ve got to wrap it up pretty soon.

MIKE: Okay, real quick. I just want to know, do you have a favorite story of a couple that you put together?

EVAN: There is, and believe it or not, I can’t tell it.

KIRK: Oh.

MIKE: Ooh.

EVAN: Because she is publicity shy and I work under confidentiality and I have to respect my clients. She is married, she is pregnant, she was 40 when she first came to me, she hadn’t dated in about 20 years, and she was a hard case. she wasn’t easy to match up. She wouldn’t be the first person you would choose. And again, I can’t give anything more revealing than that. But again, she was a hard luck case, she was 40 years old, she had a ticking clock, she wanted to be married and engaged, married and pregnant, and within six months, she was.

KIRK: That’s so awesome. Good for you.

MIKE: Yeah, that’s enough for me to be…that’s awesome.

EVAN: And because I have to respect the fact that she doesn’t want to be outed, I can’t out her with any more identifying information.

KIRK: Sure, that’s okay. But hey, let me ask you this, do you ever keep a running, sort of like Cupid’s list of like who you can match up and say, “Oh this person would be great with that person” or “This girl would be so awesome” and do you put them together?

EVAN: I’m not a matchmaker. There’s a much bigger responsibility being a matchmaker than being a dating coach. Matchmakers will charge 10, 20 thousand dollars to ostensibly find you a spouse. Their job is to put people together. My job is to help people find their blind spot and figure out what’s not working in their love life. I don’t charge, I charge a decent amount but I don’t charge anything like that.

KIRK: But do you believe that matchmakers can really do that or is it impossible to determine who’s going to actually fit?

EVAN: Nothing’s impossible, and I know most of the matchmakers in this country. In fact, I just got back from a matchmakers conference in New Jersey, and I think there are a bunch of pretty good matchmakers out there. The downside is that it’s pretty pricey, you can’t control who you go out with, and even if that matchmaker’s good and has a sixth sense about people and understands what people want and has a track record of having delivered, at the end of the day, their database is a lot smaller than Yahoo Personals. So Yahoo match, wherever, you have to sift through lots of people and choose and write and get rejected, and matchmakers, you’re saying, “I don’t have to do all the work, but I also don’t get to control who I meet.”

KIRK: Right.

EVAN: And so it’s a tradeoff, and again, if you have the means, I say “Why not?” I actually refer my clients to matchmakers frequently, but again, a lot of the people who work with me have the means to do that.

KIRK: Mmhmm. One more thing. I have to always take it to the dirty side.

MIKE: Can I have one more thing too? Thanks.

KIRK: Sorry Mike. Okay, what percentage of people that you’re trying to work with really have these things about sex that that’s the important part of their hookup or their match? What percentage of people have that as a high criteria?

EVAN: It’s not something that’s always covered because, again, everybody comes to you for the same reason, and people are generally not paying me thousands of dollars just because they want to get laid. But there are plenty of people who, you know, say “I was in a passionless marriage for 15 years and suddenly I’m single, and it’s really important to me that I have an active sex life. I’m a 50 year old woman” or whatever it is. It’s a priority for everybody. Attraction’s a priority for everybody. Very rarely do I get somebody who’s like, you know, “I’m a submissive and I need a guy who’s a dominant.” That happens from time to time, and it’s always interesting because it’s not my world and I don’t claim to know anything about that.

KIRK: Right, but do they actually say that’s a criteria, they have to have someone who’s dominant or whatever?

EVAN: Yeah, and it’s my job to help them market themselves on a mainstream dating site as opposed to a sex site and hint at that side of them so that they attract the right type of person.

KIRK: Right, right, right.

EVAN: But it’s always, again like with any dating situation, each person is unique. You know, you could deal with the same issues with different people and it’s going to all come out differently.

KIRK: Right. Yeah, well thanks.

MIKE: It is clear how evident…    

KIRK: He’s thought it through, man.

MIKE: Yeah, I mean, it’s all covered. Do you have a background in psychology also?

EVAN: There’s absolutely nothing that qualifies me to do what I do except for the fact that I do it.

KIRK: You’re just a good observer.

MIKE: You’re a very good observer.

EVAN: Thank you, I’m a writer, and so, I wrote a couple books about dating and the books did okay. So thankfully I’ve been able to grow into this job and learn from my clients, and I’m pretty good with metaphor. But no, I don’t have a background in psychology. I was supposed to be a lawyer, wrote a couple screenplays and sitcoms, and here I am. And I’ve been doing it for five years.

MIKE: But it really is your calling. You’re just very natural. You never know what you’re going to get when you meet somebody and it’s like dating coach.

EVAN: It’s a fun job, and you know, if there’s anybody who’s listening wants to talk to me, you know, I don’t charge anybody to do an initial consultation, talk on the phone. I’m at evanmarkkatz.com. 866-432-9726. And I really just appreciate the time.

KIRK: And we’re going to put your info on our website too, so anybody who wants to go to our website, you can get his link there, which is whatmenreallysayaboutwomen.com. And you can also find our email links there and some photos from time to time and stuff like that, so go ahead and check it out. We gotta wrap this up. Thank you so much for coming, we really appreciate it. It was awesome.

EVAN: Yeah. It was really a pleasure. You guys are good guys, and I think you’re performing a service to the world.

KIRK: Good.

MIKE: You clearly are. If I’m ever back out, I’m definitely calling you.

EVAN: Well I hope I never hear from you again.

MIKE: I appreciate that.

KIRK: We’ll check you back another time. Alright, bye.

EVAN: Bye.