A FLY ON THE WALL: What Men Really Say About Women

Copyright TAHC, LLC – All Rights Reserved.
Thanks to Kelly G. for this transcript!
This episode was mixed by Greg from Lucid Drive Studios.
Technical services provided by www.betasptodvd.com

EPISODE TWELVE
October 23, 2007

–INTRO TO SHOW–

Welcome to another episode of A FLY ON THE WALL…
Guy #1: I love girls who are just like, you know, strong and take charge kind of ladies.
Guy #2: You know, somebody who’s uh, you know, loves you, cares about you, wants you, but doesn’t need you to, uh you know, make her feel okay about herself.
Guy #3: No drama, I don’t do drama.
Guy #4: You know, what fascinates me is Goth girls. They’re so devoted.
Guy #5: All day woman. Smart, good looking, nice body. Good cook. Good hair. Great mom, good fun to be with.
Guy #6: Definitely someone who can put up with my bullshit.
Guy #7: You know, I need a really sweet girl, but she’s got, her body’s gotta rock.
Guy #8: A very exotic look. Part Italian, a little Armenian, a little bit of French, and a little bit of that, a little bit of everything, so kind of that olive skin, beautiful eyes.
Guy #9: I like sweatpants, and uh, t-shirts, and uh, clogs.
Guy #10: Yeah, I’m an ass man, all day long, all day long. Hahahahaha. Ha.

–SEGMENT 1–

MIKE: Hi welcome to A FLY IN THE WALL. I’m Mike.
KIRK: And I’m Kirk.
MIKE: Are we ready for the show? We got a guest here today. I’m very excited.
KIRK: Yeah, we’d like to welcome Lucia to the studio. Thanks for coming in. This is great. Lucia is a, maybe you can just tell us a little bit about what you do.
LUCIA: Sure, I’ve dated in six cities, four countries, and two continents, and I have a local TV show and radio show.
KIRK: Wow.
LUCIA: I wrote a book called Lucia’s Lessons of Love, and I have a newsletter that comes out every week and I give people advice on what to do with their love lives.
KIRK: Do they respond to it?
LUCIA: Absolutely, I have thousands of subscribers.
KIRK: Thousands of subscribers.
LUCIA: Thousands
MIKE: So this is a full time job.
LUCIA: Getting towards full time. Not quite there yet.
MIKE: So that’s a lot of work that’s gone into it.
LUCIA: It is. I do it very quickly. I move fast.
MIKE: Wow, I have a little bit of allergies this evening, so I apologize if I sound a little scratchy or nasal-y. We’ll just power through this because we’re very excited to have our guest here.
KIRK: Yeah, she’s a beautiful, tall, blond…
MIKE: Yes, yes, yes.
KIRK: She’s an LA 10.
LUCIA: Well I don’t know about that, but thank you.
MIKE: I would give her an LA 10 also, Kirk.
KIRK: Yeah, beautiful.
MIKE: Actually I’m going to go ahead and applaud this one. Very nice, very nice.
KIRK: We gotta make you blush a little bit.
LUCIA: Alright.
KIRK: First of all, before we get going, I just want to say that at the end of this show, I have this great email that this person wrote us about what guys like in scent and smell and all that, and I’d love to run it by you. So at the end of the show, we just have to have time for that, okay?
LUCIA: Sure.
KIRK: And in the meantime, I thought I’d ask you, you’re doing a class here in LA. Can you tell us what it’s about?
LUCIA: Yeah, I call it the cougar class.
MIKE: Kirk, are you familiar with cougars? Is there anybody that…there’s someone here that probably doesn’t know what a cougar is.
LUCIA: You know, I was talking to someone the other day, and I said I was a cougar expert, and they were like, “Oh, you’re an expert on cats?”
MIKE: Well there’s people out there that may not know what a cougar is.
KIRK: Right, so Lucia?
LUCIA: A cougar would be an attractive, sophisticated, older woman that only dates younger men.
KIRK: Like how much younger?
LUCIA: Usually it’s ten years or more.
KIRK: Wow.
MIKE: Now I have to say, I was just at work the other day, and one of the women I work with is 38. And she dates guys that are in their 20s, and she’s running around saying she’s a cougar, which I disagree with. I feel like you need to be older than 38.
LUCIA: How old do you think she should be?
MIKE: I think you need to be at least in your 40s.
KIRK: I agree with you.
LUCIA: I agree, I think you start to be a full-fledged cougar when you’re 40.
MIKE: Such a great term.
KIRK: It really is.
LUCIA: And I think between 35 and 39, you’re a cougar in training.
MIKE: Okay, alright, good. I like that. I’m going to go back to work and inform her that an expert on cougars, yeah.
LUCIA: That’s right you tell her.
KIRK: So what do you call the fat bald guys that are the same age that go for the young girls? Is there a name for them?
LUCIA: I don’t call them.
MIKE: There’s a name for them. It’s called “Alone.”
KIRK: No it’s not. Not if they’re rich.
LUCIA: That’s true.
KIRK: So okay, well good. What are you going to say in your class? I mean, what’s the benefit of being a cougar?
LUCIA: Are you kidding? There’s lots of benefits. You get to go out with young hot guys. I mean, what could be the downfall in that? I’m going to be teaching things like well, how do you deal with societal pressure because this isn’t like totally accepted yet, but I really think within 15 to 20 years, it will be very excited. And I will be teaching where to find the cubs, which is the prey.
KIRK: The cubs.
MIKE: Fantastic.
LUCIA: Where to find the cougars, how to approach them, who pays, how to deal with family, because usually the guy’s mother is not going to be too happy about it.
MIKE: Right.
LUCIA: And how to deal with all that. So there’s a lot to learn.
KIRK: Wow. I guess you’re right. How does it work? Once they hook up with you, is there a long term relationship?
LUCIA: Well there’s three different types of relationships that I’ve found there can be. There’s the cougars that they just want the guy for sex. You know, a lot of guys don’t have a problem with that. Most guys don’t have a problem with that.
MIKE: Fair enough.
KIRK: And the guys can like have sex with other women right?
LUCIA: Sure, yeah yeah.
KIRK: It’s like totally open? Yeah okay.
LUCIA: It’s like a booty call type thing, right? Then on the other extreme, there’s the woman that requires a commitment even though she knows it may not last. Because I know this woman, she’s I think 52 and she’s dating a 26 year old.
KIRK: Wow.
MIKE: Hello.
LUCIA: Hello. And she said she would not have sex with him until he made a commitment. Even though I know it’s going to break up because he wants kids and I don’t.
KIRK: Wow.
MIKE: Where do those two meet? A 26 year old and a 52 year old?
LUCIA: I don’t’ remember.
KIRK: You know, people meet, it could be anywhere.
LUCIA: Yeah.
MIKE: I’m just curious, I mean, is it schoolteacher?
LUCIA: She was prowling the local college, I’m just kidding.
MIKE: I’m curious about that though. I mean, do you remember what she did for a career?
LUCIA: I don’t remember anything, but you know, these days it’s a lot easier to meet because of the Internet.
MIKE: That’s true.
KIRK: But wait, I got one for you. So the guy, you call him young and cute, right?
LUCIA: He better be, otherwise what’s the point?
KIRK: So he’s young and cute, right? So why can’t he get a young and cute girl if he’s…
LUCIA: I’m not saying he can’t, but believe it or not, a lot of young guys actually prefer older women.
KIRK: They do?
LUCIA: Mmhmm. We’re more sophisticated. We’re more confident. They all seem to bring up the fact that older women are more confident and they know what they want, whereas the young girls, “I don’t know what I want.” Or they’re bugging them all the time, they’re calling them 10 times a day, “where were you,” “what’s going on,” “where is this going,” “I wanna have kids,” “let’s get married.” You’ll never get that with an older woman.
MIKE: Right, right I agree. Because I’m single and I’m in my late 30s right now, and I’ve, the last few girls that I’ve dated have been right around 30, maybe 33 at most. They definitely have their act together.
LUCIA: They start getting their act together around 30. But in their 40s, they really have their act together.
MIKE: They really got their act together.
LUCIA: You might want to try older.
KIRK: I guess I’m still hung up on where it goes now. So okay…
LUCIA: Right, and I was saying, there are three different types of relationships. And there’s the one that’s in the middle where it’s not a booty call but it’s not also a full-fledged commitment where it’s like friends with benefits. We see each other, we have sex, we hang out. So those are the three different types of relationships that can be.
KIRK: Hang out meaning like in public with your friends?
LUCIA: Yeah, yeah.
KIRK: Okay. See to me, you can’t have a relationship that’s real unless you can hang out with your friends with your girlfriend or boyfriend.
MIKE: Well see, what is a real relationship though?
KIRK: Well, I mean, just to be honest with each other, and you know, just do things together, you got to be able to go out together. You know, if it’s all secret and stuff.
LUCIA: Well then it’s a booty call.
MIKE: I don’t know. I’ve had a few booty calls in my day, but they weren’t a secret.
LUCIA: Uh huh.
MIKE: Like I often told many people about them but it wasn’t like I was parading.
LUCIA: Right, I’m not saying it’s a secret like you don’t tell anyone about it, it’s just that you don’t generally go out.
MIKE: Right, alright. I like having an expert here, it’s good.
LUCIA: Clear things up for you here.
MIKE: That’s right. I got all these questions.
KIRK: I mean, you don’t have to answer this, but if you want to you can. I mean, you mentioned the three kinds of cougars? What kind of cougar would you be?
LUCIA: I’m the middle one.
KIRK: The middle one?
LUCIA: Yeah, I like a balance.
KIRK: So what if like someone wanted to take it further and like you know start a life with you? Would you be willing to do that?
LUCIA: Yeah definitely.
KIRK: You don’t have a big wall up or anything?
LUCIA: No, I mean, I only date younger guys, so if I only date younger guys, hopefully eventually I’ll marry one.
MIKE: Now did you ever date older guys?
LUCIA: Yeah, when I was younger.
MIKE: Now as far as being the different levels of cougar and you’re the middle area, have you tried every aspect of being a cougar?
LUCIA: I have. I don’t want to be in a full-fledged relationship at the moment, but I also want something more than a booty call.
MIKE: Right.
KIRK: So I want to know more about the dynamics of it. You mentioned earlier, who pays, so how does that work? I mean, do you just, since you’re the cougar, I assume you’re the dominant one.
LUCIA: No, no, no.
KIRK: No?
LUCIA: No, no, no. See, that’s why you gotta come to class because even though you’re older, it doesn’t mean…if you start trying to be the dominant one, you’re going to turn into his mother, and who wants to date his mother?
KIRK: A lot of guys do. A lot of guys do.
MIKE: Kirk and I just had this conversation. Was that last week or two weeks ago?
KIRK: That was on episode 11 I think.
MIKE: Yeah, we were just talking about that.
LUCIA: Well they might be looking for someone like dear old Mom, but they don’t want someone that acts like their mom in the sense that they’re taking care of them in that sense. They want a lover, not a mother.
KIRK: Right.
MIKE: Yeah, I agree.
KIRK: But they also want to be coddled and taken care of.
LUCIA: Yeah, to a point. Otherwise if you start crossing that line, you turn into his mother. I’m not really the mothering type, in case you haven’t noticed.
MIKE: I look at you, and I’m not getting that but, at the same time, I’ve dated women…
LUCIA: No, no. I won’t tell you to put on your sweater because it’s cold outside.
MIKE: But I’ve dated that don’t look like they’re the mothering type either, but they end up trying to mother me, and I’m like “hey there, back off.”
LUCIA: No, never. I mean, if you’re sick, I’m a really good nurse.
KIRK: Right right.
LUCIA: I’ll take care of you.
KIRK: Do you dress up like the nurse too?
LUCIA: Only my partners know for sure.
KIRK: Alright.
LUCIA: So it’s a fine line to walk, and that’s what women have to be careful of doing because they think, “Well I’m older and I have more money.” If you start doing that, it’s not going to work because he’s still a man.
MIKE: Right.
LUCIA: He’s still a male. And so he needs to be in control.
MIKE: Right on.
LUCIA: That’s right.
MIKE: She’s got it all dialed on.
LUCIA: So that’s why he has to pay.
MIKE: Every time?
LUCIA: Not every time. But definitely the first date.
MIKE: How many dates until you pull out your wallet?
LUCIA: Well, I never pull out my wallet.
MIKE: Nicely done, nicely done.
KIRK: But wait a second…
MIKE: It would never work out between us.
KIRK: What if they’re a 19 year old guy, and they’re in college, right? And so like…
LUCIA: I’ve dated a 19 year old guy. He paid.
KIRK: Really?
LUCIA: He had money.
KIRK: He’s like, “Dad, I’m really broke at my school.”
MIKE: Well that’s a good question. Do you date rich guys or does it matter to you?
LUCIA: I don’t care.
MIKE: Okay.
KIRK: What’s the longest you’ve ever been in the cougar relationship with someone?
LUCIA: I believe it was about a year and a half.
KIRK: That’s pretty long.
LUCIA: Well we broke up for a few months in between but yeah.
MIKE: What’d he do, turn 30?
LUCIA: Turn 30?
MIKE: Did he turn 30? Getting a little up the hill for you?
LUCIA: No, no, no. I date guys in their 30s.
MIKE: Is there a cutoff age for you?
LUCIA: I try not to go under 25.
MIKE: Okay, how about, and try not to go above?
LUCIA: 40.
MIKE: Right on.
KIRK: Okay, here’s a question.
MIKE: Good for you.
KIRK: So, what if you happened to be somewhere and you meet this awesome guy and he happens to be 52?
LUCIA: Right.
KIRK: And he’s just amazing, like are you just not attracted to him?
LUCIA: You mean like Denzel?
KIRK: Yeah, like Denzel.
LUCIA: He’s around that age. No, I actually know a guy, he’s in his late 50s. Of course, he doesn’t look like it.
KIRK: Yeah, he’s healthy.
LUCIA: He works out, he works out, you know, I mean, he has, his body fat is probably 2%. And very intelligent, I mean, I would totally date him. But he’s older.
KIRK: But you’re just not attracted to that or you don’t seek it?
LUCIA: Yeah, generally I’m not attracted to older men.
KIRK: Wow.
MIKE: Kirk, did we talk about the oldest women that I messed around? When I was 19, I messed around with a 49 year old.
LUCIA: See?
KIRK: A 49 year old?
MIKE: A 49 year old.
KIRK: Wow.
LUCIA: You got cougar-ed.
MIKE: I did get cougar-ed back before I knew what a cougar was.
KIRK: Was it nice?
MIKE: When I was rocking it out in junior college, there was a local hangout that this woman, you know, she was great-looking. She didn’t look 49 or whatever. This is out in Chicago in the wintertime and it’s cold, and at the end of the night, I’d walk her to her car and like make out with her from time to time. And one time she invited me into her car.
LUCIA: Into her den?
MIKE: Into her den. And we started making out, and I think I grabbed her boob over her shirt. And it was just awkward, and I don’t know. That was kind of the extent of it. But I just remember being like, “Wow, 49 years old. Look at this.” And what’s funny is, I think I started thinking about it, like, God that woman today is actually older than my mom.
LUCIA: And she was probably older than your mom at that point too.
MIKE: She was totally older than my mom then. But then I guess when I really started thinking about it, I started thinking, What the hell am I doing with a 49 year old and what the hell is she doing with me? But at the same time, it’s something that I still remember, you know, four years later.
LUCIA: Four years later.
MIKE: Yeah, so.
KIRK: But like, long term wise though, there’s just this whole age gap. So the cougar is getting older and menopause and all that but the guy is…
LUCIA: But so is the guy.
KIRK: The guy is still getting way hornier as they go along. So you know, the guys are going to be horny until whenever.
LUCIA: Well actually, no, because guys are the most sexually active, the most horny as you say, in their late teens, early twenties.
KIRK: That’s what the books say, but I know the opposite. Like, from personal experience, I never have waned in my sexuality personally, like I’ve always been the same that I am when I was 20, exactly the same. Like maybe I have other focuses, like my work or whatever. The books say that, but I think guys…
MIKE: I’ve slowed down.
LUCIA: See? One of each here.
MIKE: I’m not proud of it, but I have. Yeah, it’s such a bummer, but I guess it allows me to focus on work, otherwise I’d just be sitting there.
KIRK: Well you can slow down by not going to clubs and all that, but your libido is down?
MIKE: No, no, I’ve definitely slowed down. Yeah, I’ve definitely slowed down, it sucks.
KIRK: Wow, see, like my libido, it’s the same when I was 20, you know?
LUCIA: Wow. Your wife’s a lucky one.
MIKE: Yeah, she is. I was dry humping everything…
KIRK: Four years ago when I was twenty.
LUCIA: Right right right. We were all 20 four years ago. Well and also with women, because you’re mentioning their libido, it doesn’t go down.
KIRK: It doesn’t?
LUCIA: No, and I think the reason it goes down for women that are married is because they’ve been with the same guy for so long that they’re just bored.
MIKE: Yeah, I can see that.
LUCIA: Because if they get divorced and they start dating, it’s like, gee, all of a sudden, they have an interest in sex again. So what is that all about? So I really don’t agree that as women get older, they lose their drive.
KIRK: Yeah, people fall into their routines and everything.
LUCIA: Yeah, I lost my drive in my 20s and I was with the same guy for 5 years. It’s like I didn’t want anything to do with him.
MIKE: That happened to me. I was living with somebody for a few years, and it was just dead.
LUCIA: Right.
MIKE: And I’ve been, you know, more or less single for the last 8 years.
LUCIA: Wow.
MIKE: And it’s just been great.
KIRK: We’ll be right back. We’re going to take a really quick break, and we’ll be back with our fine guest Lucia.

–COMMERCIAL–

Girl: I’m Christina. Three years ago when I was pregnant, I was trying to figure out how I could bring in some money to my soon-to-be-expanding family while staying at home. When my husband and I were cleaning up the guestroom to make the nursery, we came across an old Beta max VCR from the early 80s. My husband goes, “I bet nobody on earth has one of these relics anymore. I bet their home movies are going to rot forever.” “Oh my God, honey, we can transfer all those home movies to DVD for people! It’s a win-win. I get to stay home and nest while the movies transfer!” Bingo, our DVD transfer business was born along with our son Jason. Now they’re both well and thriving. We even expanded our transfer business to include all video formats, in between playing in the mud. Feel free to come by our website: www.betasptodvd.com.

–SEGMENT 2—

MIKE: And we are back with our special guest Lucia.
KIRK: Yeah, this is really fun. We were talking about cougars with her, she’s an expert.
MIKE: Actually while we were on break, I ran out. I met a cougar. I’m loving it.
KIRK: There you go.
MIKE: It’s like, this is perfect.
KIRK: I met two.
MIKE: They move fast. The cougars move fast. You know that.
LUCIA: Yes. We sneak up on you.
MIKE: They jump up on their prey.
KIRK: That’s hot. And also, you know, I want to finish this subject up, but we had one burning question during break. Now you’re an expert in being a cougar, right? So a lot of people would wonder, why aren’t you married or hooked up or whatever if you’re the relationship expert, you know what I mean?
LUCIA: I’ve been asked that a lot, and I’ve pondered this question and the best reason I’ve come up with is, if I’m not married, it’s because I haven’t wanted to be. So that’s why I chose the guys that I chose because it wasn’t going to lead anywhere, and that’s also part of what gives me my expertise. It’s because I’ve made almost every mistake you can think of in the dating world, and now I’m more selective in who I date. And I’m sure at some point, I’ll meet someone and eventually get married.
MIKE: You think so?
LUCIA: I hope so.
MIKE: You hope so, right, right, right. Now do you believe in like love at first sight, or do you believe in, you know, there’s one person for everybody?
LUCIA: I did read a book actually about love at first sight, and I know it exists. People, they just meet and for some reason, boom, there’s an instant connection and they end up having a relationship, getting married, whatever. So it does exist. In terms of if you’re asking if there’s “the one,” I don’t think there’s just “the one.” I think you can be happy with a lot of people, because if there was this concept of “the one” and then you meet that person and then it doesn’t work out, well now what?
KIRK: Well then it wasn’t the one.
LUCIA: But you thought it was the one, right?
KIRK: Well yeah, you thought it was, but it wasn’t the one.
LUCIA: How are you supposed to know?
MIKE: Lucia, that brings up a good point because I’m single and Kirk’s married. Now Kirk, do you believe in…when you first met Pamela, was it love at first sight?
KIRK: It was instantly love at first sight, and honest to God, it’s been like a date the whole time. I mean, you know, it’s exciting to be around her, and she’s my best friend. I know it sounds really cliché and dumb.
LUCIA: Everyone says it.
KIRK: But like it’s totally love at first sight. When I met her, I said, she’s just the one. And then she apparently thought the same thing for me, and I’ve been with a few women before that, and it wasn’t love at first sight, and some of them I tried to make it work because I thought, well maybe it’s supposed to be crappy like this. Or maybe you have to put up with some things or whatever. But with Pamela, I don’t. It’s the real deal. So I think that there is love at first sight. And I also agree with you Lucia that maybe there isn’t one love. Maybe if I didn’t meet Pamela, then maybe I would have met someone else in five years or something. But I think that there’s definitely a chemistry when you know it’s love at first sight.
MIKE: So if anyone’s wondering what I think.
LUCIA: Uh, no we’re not.
MIKE: I actually have never been married. I’ve lived with somebody for three and a half years. And I’m currently dating somebody now that I’ve been dating for a few months. I love having a lot of space to myself. I love the girl that I’m dating right now, but I also…I don’t know if I believe in there’s the one. Because I’ve dated a lot of people that I’ve felt I’ve had a lot of feelings with, I’ve gotten along very well. There was somebody right before her that I was dating that I was kind of going, “Hmm, this is somebody that I’m really very interested in seeing where this goes, could this be the one?”
KIRK: But man, when you meet the right person, dude, it’s like electric.
LUCIA: You know it.
KIRK: It is like, there’s just no question about it.
MIKE: I’ve met a couple people where it’s been electric though.
KIRK: Really?
MIKE: Absolutely. But I also think you don’t like dating as much as I do. Like I really like dating. I like getting out there. I have no problem talking to women, and I’ve dated a lot. And I enjoy it, I get a kick out of it. I find it fascinating to find out different things about women, what makes them tick, and I love hooking up. You know, I also like being in a relationship from time to time, and I really enjoy the one I’m in right now. So I don’t know if I feel like I believe in love at first sight. I’ve been hit by a couple of people that really screwed with my head a little bit, I was so into them, but it went away, and so did they.
KIRK: Then you wrote a country song.
MIKE: Then I wrote a country song. So I mean, I feel like there’s just different levels of what love at first sight means and what…
LUCIA: Well not everyone experiences love at first sight.
KIRK: That’s what I think.
MIKE: So there’s not “the one” for everyone either, you guys think.
LUCIA: No, there’s several ones.
KIRK: That’s what I think. Yeah.
MIKE: What are you going to do if another one pops up your way, Kirk?
KIRK: It’s like I’m already fulfilled, you know?
MIKE: You’re not going to invite her into the room or anything?
KIRK: I’m not going to invite her into the room. Hey I do have a question that I’ve always wanted to ask a love expert or a relationship or dating expert such as yourself. Okay, we get a lot of emails, and we get people saying all this about single women here and single women there and about how it’s so hard to find a guy and where do guys hang out and all that, why is it so hard for a woman to find a man? Like, why is it so hard? Guys are tripping over themselves to get to a woman, you know, even if she’s a little chunky or whatever, the guys will do anything to get there, so why is it so hard for these women to find men, and why are they all single?
LUCIA: There’s three types of men.
MIKE: I’m laughing, I can’t believe it’s categorized to three types of men. I love this.
KIRK: The losers, the not so losers, the winners.
MIKE: I like this breakdown.
LUCIA: Okay, this is my theory, my philosophy. There’s of course the jerks, which everyone knows about. Then on the opposite side of the scale, there’s the wimps. Then there’s the guy in between who’s not a jerk, who’s not a wimp. He’s balanced. He’s strong when he needs to be, he’s sensitive when he needs to be. The problem is that most problems fall into the category of either the jerk or the wimp. So women, they aren’t happy with the wimps, they don’t want someone that they can walk over all the time. We can be with them but we’re not happy about it.
MIKE: I mean, I know a lot of women that wear the pants and love wearing the pants.
LUCIA: But you know what if they were with a guy that knew how to behave with them that wasn’t a wimp, they would respect them and they wouldn’t wear the pants.
KIRK: And the ones that wear the pants usually have many many troubles of their own. I mean, I’m telling, you can look at them, they look unhealthy. They’re usually, there’s something in their life that’s really screwed up, right?
LUCIA: Right.
MIKE: I think I know more people that are married that the women wears the pants than not, and some of them are very healthy.
KIRK: You think?
MIKE: Yeah, it’s the guy that’s more of the one that’s unhealthy.
KIRK: Really?
MIKE: Absolutely.
LUCIA: Well they’re both happy and unhealthy because no guy wants to be henpecked and walked all over and no woman wants to be the man, the dominant one. They take on that role because of other things that are going on in that psyche. But in a balanced world, the woman has her place and the man has his place.
KIRK: I agree with that, I totally agree.
MIKE: That just throws me off because I see more people that are walked on.
LUCIA: Well just because it exists doesn’t mean it’s right.
MIKE: Well of course, right. Yeah, I mean, fine, right.
LUCIA: And there’s also the other one where the guy is totally dominating and the woman is yes sir no sir.
MIKE: You mean, the right way? No, I’m totally kidding. The way things should be, dammit, woman?
LUCIA: Yes dear.
KIRK I’ll tell you why our relationship works so great, me and Pamela, is because that’s exactly what you said. It’s balanced. Like if we have a fight, you know, we’ll be pissed off, but within two hours, no joke, within two hours, somebody goes and says, “You know what, I was an asshole, I’m sorry.” And it just works itself out, and there’s a real balance there.
MIKE: Now what are the three types of women?
LUCIA: It’s the same thing.
MIKE: It’d be the same thing? So wimps, jerks, and balanced for women?
LUCIA: Right.
MIKE: Alright.
KIRK: So are there any other reasons why these women are single? You’re just saying there aren’t enough men in the middle?
LUCIA: That’s my belief, yeah. You have to become what you’re looking for. Everyone’s always looking for the right person instead of trying to be the right person.
KIRK: They’re looking for someone to save them and pull them out of their thing.
LUCIA: Everyone save yourselves.
KIRK: That’s so great.
MIKE: That’s good. That’s true.
LUCIA: Yeah, because a lot of women, a lot of people that are writing to me, they’re putting up with things that they shouldn’t be. Their tolerance level for abuse, whether it’s mental, emotional, physical, is too high. It’s very high. Whereas mine is very low, most guys don’t make it past a first date with me.
MIKE: What’s a typical first date like for you?
LUCIA: I really let the guy decide what to do, I let him be the man. But usually we get something to eat, either coffee or lunch.
MIKE: Do you meet people, I mean you’re very attractive. Do you get picked up when you’re walking down the street or at the grocery store?
LUCIA: Yeah.
MIKE: Do you like when somebody does that? Do you think women would like that in general?:
LUCIA: The problem is, the guys that we wish would come up to us are not the guys coming up to us.
KIRK: I just don’t understand all this. You’re attractive to a guy who’s either a wimp or a jerk or the middle balanced guy, so why don’t you have three guys coming up to you?
MIKE: Well the wimp ain’t coming up.
KIRK: Okay, the wimp ain’t coming up.
LUCIA: I’m just saying, the guys that go up to women, because this happens to my girlfriends too, are not, they’re usually not attractive. 95% of the time, they’re not guys we want to have anything to do with.
MIKE: Now the guys that you wish would have come up to you, do you go up to them?
LUCIA: No.
MIKE: You don’t believe in approaching a guy and asking him for a date?
LUCIA: No.
MIKE: Why’s that?
LUCIA: Well because I don’t know if he’s married or has a girlfriend.
MIKE: But he doesn’t know your situation either.
LUCIA: Well he can ask.
MIKE: But you won’t walk up to him and go, hey how are you doing?
LUCIA: No.
MIKE: I’m very surprised by that.
KIRK: Me too.
MIKE: I’m very surprised by that. I mean, I’ve been picked up by women before that have struck up the conversation with me, and I like that.
KIRK: Okay, here’s the classic thing that my dad told me when I was.
LUCIA: Knee high?
KIRK: No, when I was going to the senior prom. He’s like, “Son, you’ll go walk up there and find the most beautiful girl there and she’ll be standing alone, walk up to her and ask her to dance.” A lot of guys don’t do that because they’ll be intimidated by the beauty. So.
LUCIA: Okay I know what you’re going to ask.
KIRK: Yeah, so okay, go ahead.
LUCIA: And believe it or not, a lot of beautiful women are sitting at home at night alone.
KIRK: So my dad’s right?
LUCIA: Yeah.
MIKE: Yeah your dad’s right. And actually I know that too because a girl that we worked with that I dated for a little bit, that was her deal. She was a model. I mean, she was a model, she was gorgeous. But she would tell me that guys would never come up to her, never talk to her, and she was sweet as can be, and that was one that I was just like, “Geez really?”
KIRK: But that’s why with her and with Lucia, why don’t you just walk up to the cutest guy in the room and just approach him and say hi because that breaks up the ice?
LUCIA: I’m not a man obviously so I don’t understand that part, I have to tell you, about being intimidated by beautiful women. So I guess I gotta keep that in mind.
MIKE: Yeah, you gotta keep that in mind.
LUCIA: You know, we’re not going to bite unless they want us to.
KIRK: But it cuts both ways. See, the guys are thinking the same thing. They’re, you know, they want someone to show them a sign too.
LUCIA: Yeah, well I tell women to smile.
KIRK: Well that’s good enough.
LUCIA: At least smile. Eye contact and smile. So it’s like, okay, I’m interested, get over here.
KIRK: So you do that.
LUCIA: Yeah, I do that. Yeah, I just won’t talk first.
KIRK: But right, you’re initiating something. You’re saying, hey I’m gentle, I’m a nice person, right?
LUCIA: I don’t know about gentle.
KIRK: Cougar.
MIKE: There’s the cougar coming out. Rawr.
KIRK: That’s so funny. Well hey, I want to get to this email because we’re going to run out of time. This is really fun.
MIKE: This is good. Are you having fun?
LUCIA: Absolutely.
MIKE: Or are you just saying that because we’re on the air?
KIRK: This is an email I got from Danielly, and she’s in San Francisco, and she has a couple questions.
MIKE: Danielly?
KIRK: Danielly. Yeah, that’s her name.
MIKE: Danielly. Okay. Alright.
KIRK: So I’m just going to read it and there’s different questions and I’ll stop and you guys can help me answer them.
LUCIA: How many questions?
KIRK: There’s like four or five.
LUCIA: Geez.
KIRK: They’re all about the same thing, which is scent, okay? So number one, “I’m interested a lot in the sense of smell. It’s kind of a deal breaker for me. Example, I like it for a guy to smell nice or not at all, or most fascinating, to have his own natural scent.” So I guess she’s asking about guy’s scent. I mean, what do you think about the way guys smell?
MIKE: Thank God you’re here tonight.
LUCIA: Yes, thank God I’m here.
MIKE: That would have been a tough one for us.
LUCIA: Well, you know, there’s a few guys I’ve gone out with that they had this horrible cologne. And they were attractive, but it’s just like, ugh, I could not get near them.
KIRK: Wow.
LUCIA: So please wear good cologne if you’re going to wear cologne, and don’t wear too much of it either.
KIRK: Is that a deal breaker for you?
LUCIA: It’s not a deal breaker. I mean, if I was just interested in the guy, at some point I’d have to say, “Listen, you gotta stop wearing that thing.”
MIKE: Yeah, I was just going to ask you that, at what point would you say something to him?
LUCIA: Probably after the third date.
MIKE: Third date? Good to know.
KIRK: So that was question number one. Now I want to go to question number two. Danielly from San Francisco writes, “How do guys feel about girls constantly putting on perfume, like beyond the first date? Should it be kept just for special occasions?” Mike?
MIKE: No, I don’t think it should be kept.
KIRK: Not at all.
MIKE: No, not at all.
KIRK: Why would you think that? It’s like makeup. You would always wear makeup, so you would always put on perfume.
MIKE: Yeah, yeah. Do you wear perfume a lot?
LUCIA: Every day.
MIKE: Every day?
LUCIA: Right now I have on a “Sweet honesty.”
MIKE: “Sweet honesty.” I like that.
KIRK: Okay, well let’s do another one. “How do guys feel about musky smells or floral smells?”
MIKE: I’m not a huge fan of a musky smell. Floral’s nice. That just felt so awkward.
LUCIA: You sounded gay.
MIKE: Did I? I felt gay. Danielly, what are you doing to me over here. Lucia, you wear floral or do your like musky?
LUCIA: Floral, floral.
MIKE: How about petroleo?
KIRK: Oh God. I was going to get to that. Hold on to that thought.
LUCIA: Ew. I hate that.
MIKE: I hate that too.
KIRK: That’s the worst. That’s the worst. I can’t stand it. It’s heavy and dense and dark. Even if you smoke pot, like it’s supposed to mask the smell of pot, that’s why people do it.
LUCIA: Oh okay.
KIRK: But it doesn’t mask it. It just smells like disgusting. It’s like heavy and dense and dark, isn’t it? Ugh, I hate that. I can’t stand it.
LUCIA: You don’t like it?
MIKE: Like, what do you think about it, honestly.
KIRK: Danielly, this is your final question for the Fly on the Wall crew here. And most importantly, she says, what is the most intoxicating turn-on smell for a girl to wear and where on the person?
LUCIA: There’s lots of places you can wear it. Inside of your knees.
MIKE: For real?
LUCIA: Yeah.
MIKE: Inside of your knees?
LUCIA: Mmhmm. That’s a secret spot. Not always, but I’m saying that’s one place that women are told to place it.
MIKE: I’ve just never heard that.
LUCIA: See, you’re learning a lot of stuff tonight.
MIKE: I like that. A little sniffing legs.
LUCIA: Like a dog.
MIKE: Exactly. Like a cub. Thought this one out, I like that.
KIRK: So cool, well that’s Danielly from San Francisco. Good questions.
MIKE: Thanks Danielly.
MIKE: Anyone else can write in too if you have questions. We won’t have Lucia here next time, but at least we have her for this one.
KIRK: That’s right.
LUCIA: But they can always subscribe to my newsletter and they can get my advice.
KIRK: And now’s the chance to do your big plug for whatever you want to tell people about.
LUCIA: Sure, if you want to check out my book, go to lessonsoflove.net. And it’s volume I, because I intend to have many volumes.
MIKE: Excellent, yeah well I’m sure you will. This has been great. In the short time that you’ve been here, I’ve learned a lot.
KIRK: Look at all that we’ve learned about cougars.
MIKE: Yeah I know.
KIRK: Is there a fetish for that? Like some guys have a fetish for like older girls?
LUCIA: I wouldn’t call it a fetish.
KIRK: No?
LUCIA: No, I mean, there’s, you know, guys that are into feet.
KIRK: Right.
LUCIA: And if a girl does not have a nice pair of feet, he won’t date her. That’s more of a fetish. There may be some guys like that, but in general I think it’s a societal revolution. Things are changing.
MIKE: I think things are changing also. I agree with you. It’s getting more and more acceptable. It seems like to me, Demi Moore kicked it off with Ashton Kutcher, and then you just started seeing it everywhere, and it’s very accepted.
KIRK: So anyway, Well thank you so much for stopping by.
LUCIA: Thank you so much for having me.
MIKE: Can I just ask one more question?
KIRK: Yeah.
LUCIA: No.
MIKE: Please?
KIRK: Please, Lucia?
LUCIA: Alright.
MIKE: You say guys sometimes don’t like small feet on a woman?
KIRK: No, not small feet. Ugly feet.
MIKE: Ugly feet. Sorry. Is there something on you, something on guys that you don’t like that stands out like, and you’ll be like, eh, can’t date him, deal breaker?
KIRK: Yeah deal breakers. Come on, what about acne with all these kids that you’re doing?
LUCIA: Oh come on. I mention one 19 year old and suddenly I’m dating kids. He had acne, what are you going to do?
KIRK: Right.
MIKE: So is there a time in your mind that you’re like, you know, I don’t want to be 60 and cougar-ing it?
LUCIA: I mean, yeah, I don’t want to be 60 and cougar-ing it.
MIKE: Right.
KIRK: You want to be settled down then?
LUCIA: Well yeah, I would like to be married by 50.
KIRK: Alright, so that gives us an idea.
LUCIA: Twenty years from now, just kidding.
MIKE: Hey I’d believe it. You’re going to have no problems.
MIKE: Alright.
KIRK: So thank a lot, and we hope to see you again. Good luck with your cougar class.
LUCIA: Thank you, I’ll let you know how it goes.
KIRK: Yeah, that’s pretty exciting. Alright, goodnight.
MIKE: Goodnight.
LUCIA: Goodnigh

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